Apprenticeships have become a big taking point within the political parties, especially when it comes around conference time.
David Cameron said the Tories will put more money to fund them, Vince Cable has promised to boost pay, while Boris Johnson hopes his apprenticeship schemes will create thousands of jobs in the capital.
But will they? Right now you get less than minimum wage and some amount to little more than washing dishes.
Talking on Headline London is the about their effectiveness are Liberal Democrate member of the London Assemblyy Stephen Knight, Matt Churchward whose company Asoria employs apprentices and he's brought one of them along, Tyson Mason.